MIBS 2013 Raymarine: Dragonfly, gS-Series, Evolution AP & much more!

Ben Ellison

Ben Ellison

Panbo editor, publisher & chief bottlewasher from 4/2005 until 8/2018, and now excited to have Ben Stein as very able publisher, webmaster, and editing colleague. Panbo is going to the next level in 2019 and beyond.

41 Responses

  1. Art says:

    Just a comment on the EmpirBus NXT system. I had it on a Hallberg-Rassy 54 and sailed it over 12’000 last year. My experience is that the system is not ready for primetime.
    I had a large number of problems with the system including random complete shutdowns (and yes… at 02:00 mid-Atlantic). When I left for the boat for a while sometimes it shut off taking the 24v fridge systems offline (thus ruining my food).
    During lightening storms in the area (not lightening hits, just lightening in the distance), the lights would flash on/off randomly around the boat and in one case one of the modules (very expensive to replace by the way) decided to fuse taking the entire system offline too. I had a spare but if not, you lose all 24v systems onboard. There is no manual override so you are TU.
    The system can not be trusted in my opinion. I worked hard with the Trigentic team in Sweden to get all the problems resolved and they did an admirable job of supporting me however, in the end, it was a system that was too unreliable.
    All the gee-whiz-can-be-programmed-and-hooked-up-to-anything stuff wasn’t worth a darn when it crapped out on you at the worst time. Electronics are wonderful but depending on them for life-safety at sea is no something I would trust to the EmpireBus system.
    My next boat has standard circuit breakers and I won’t look back…

  2. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Thanks, Art. You seem remarkably restrained given your experience. And I appreciate that you also commented on the old Empirebus entry and that’s where I’d like to respond in more detail. Whereas this entry attempts to cover so many new Raymarine products, I wouldn’t like to see the comment section dominated by discussion of another brand.

  3. Johnd says:

    Agreed Art, very restrained. This is where Apple got it right. Fewer features that work very smoothly and reliably often creates a better overall product. That same principal is even more true on a boat where the glitches may matter much more.
    On the raymarine items I’m probably most interested in hearing more about the autopilot. In contrast to a lot of the fun electronic doodads on a boat, I find the autopilot is often “mission critical” and this one sounds interesting! Especially the “modes”, as I often have different desires. Light air, relaxing slow sail with crew in cockpit, dial down the corrections. I’ve also found that a silent autopilot can get away with a lot more than a noisy one! That argues for a ram below rather than a wheel mounted add-on which I’ve found are noisier.

  4. Rolf says:

    Evolution autopilot system:
    – What’s inside the heading sensor ?
    – I guess no GPS, as long as they say: “installation below deck” ?

  5. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Rolf, we may never find out exactly what’s in the Evolution EV sensor but I doubt that GPS has anything to do with it. But I did find more product information:
    http://www.raymarine.nl/view/?id=7008

  6. Jeremy says:

    Was there any talk in Miami of Lighthouse 6 allowing wi-fi connectivity with an existing ship’s SSID?

  7. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    No, but I didn’t ask (as I should have 😉

  8. Adam says:

    I’m curious if Evolution has a “shadow drive” type feature? In the Pacific North West we are always log dodging so the convenient dis-engagement and re-engagement of the autopilot would be a big bonus for me.

  9. A Boater says:

    Half of the time I am asked to program the “shadow drive” off. Captains get tired of the 5 button pushes that has them going through two menu screens JUST to re-engage the AP after grabbing the steering wheel avoiding countless crab pots. This is mandatory if you are following a waypoint from a source other than a Garmin plotter.

  10. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    I don’t understand, Boater; when I’ve used Garmin’s Shadow Drive, you just held course for a bit and it would re-engage. Are you talking about returning to a “Nav” course?
    Adam, I think Raymarine would have mentioned a Shadow Drive style feature if they had it. And they probably could have it except for the patent protection.
    However, in Miami I did see a bit more of what Furuno calls the Safe Helm feature of its AP. I wrote about the preview over a year ago — http://goo.gl/NH5rF — but now it’s almost ready for prime time.
    Where Garmin just senses human force applied to the hydraulic line, Furuno (and partner Accusteer) sense which way you turn the wheel. Thus they not only get a shadow drive like feature without violating Garmin’s patent (they think) but they can also use the system for power steering. I didn’t actually get underway with it, but I did see a triple outboard install including all the ways Furuno lets you tweak the system. Very impressive…but Furuno has a patent on it so we may not see it elsewhere.

  11. A Boater says:

    Ben-
    Whenever a waypoint is sent to the GHC10 (from any other plotter than Garmin), you must enter into the menu and activate the GHP10 AP to “goto”. It is the only way to tell the GHC10 to do so. It takes the process I mentioned above.
    When you’ve done that and the AP is now on it’s way to a waypoint, if you steer around a crab pot, the AP (GHC10) needs told all over again. There is no single button action to re-initiate the AP.
    I have to add, I am a HUGE fan of Accusteer. They are my goto AP pump.

  12. Dave says:

    since a huge slice of Raymarines markets is electric linear drives, implementing shadow drive on those systems is much more complex.
    Dave

  13. Dan says:

    Bummer there is still no talk of broadband, FMCW RADAR from Raymarine. I guess I’ll have to go the way of Navico.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Further to the Empirebus announcement. How come after two years we still have no NMEA PGNs for digital switching. Shades of the AIS saga
    Dave

  15. Lars says:

    Evolution autopilot looks nice. Hopefully Raymarine will have taken advantage of common cellphone sensors so that price can be kept low.
    An example is the electronics in radicontrol quadcopters .
    3-axis gyros MPU-6050
    3-axis accelerometers MPU-6050
    3-axis magnetometer HMC5883L
    Barometric pressure sensor for altitude
    5 or 10Hz GPS module uBlox LEA-6H
    All for 250$ in ardupilot. Add 200$ for a nice watherproof box and all should be set 😀
    Maybe use 3 GPS modules 70$ each and make a nice GPS compass…

  16. Dave says:

    You can’t make a proper compass from multiple GpS units. It’s not accurate enough to determine position while not moving. For that you a different method using the phasing of the GPS signals
    Dave

  17. Andreas says:

    The 3-axis accelerometer MPU-6050,
    3-axis magnetometer HMC5883L, 3-axis gyro, Barometric pressure sensor for altitude and GPS module are good enough to fly a plane in a crosswind with 9 degrees of freedom. They are more than enough to steer a boat. I bet something very similar is inside the new Lowrance/Simrad unit.
    They are cheap, accurate, and easy to work with.
    I don’t think three off-the-shelf units are accurate enough to make a decent GPS compass.

  18. Jeremy says:

    The new software and an updated manual are now available on the Raymarine site.
    I downloaded the manual as I was curious how the Fusion integration will work. What I found was a bit disappointing…
    It looks like Raymarine elected to connect the Fusion 700 to the MFD via Seatalk hs (aka Raynet). The problem with this approach is that the Fusion only has one Ethernet port. If you already have the Fusion 700 connected via the ship’s router to a Wi-Fi network, this must be disconnected to free up the port. So if you have been using Fusion apps to control the 700, you will be out of luck.
    I understand that a direct Seatalk hs connection offers the advantage of speed, but the Fusion remotes connect to the Fusion 700 via NMEA 2000 and work fine. Why didn’t Raymarine go that route?
    Or better yet, open up the MFD’s wi-fi so it will work with the ship’s wi-fi and just connect to the 700 via wi-fi?
    The new software does add back the ability to control Sirius radio via the MFD. (This was offered on previous generation MFDs and hinted at, but not offered, on the new series.) I have seen many complaints on this omission on the Raymarine forums, so this alone will make some folks happy.
    The rest of us will have to be satisfied with the new icons on the home screen.

  19. GW says:

    Hi Jeremy,
    Once you connect the 700 to Raynet you will still be able to use the Fusion app. The difference is that you connect to the Raymarine WIFI network.

  20. Batteryman says:

    Interesting point Jeremy,
    I too wanted to see how Raymarine were going to allow integration of the Fusion to the MFD.
    You will need a switch if you want MFD + Radar + Fusion, or indeed if you want multiple MFD as well.
    So now you need to add a wifi access point to control the Fusion via wifi when the MFD is off, e.g. when moored. Will this also allow control of the MFD or will you be forced to use the MFD’s own wifi?
    A good solution might be to allow the mfd to turn off leaving the access point part of it on, so you don’t need to jump ssd each time. I’m sure time will be a great healer……
    I’m still unhappy that the radar overlay requires a course computer of some form, which was not documented!

  21. Jeremy says:

    GW:
    Thanks for pointing that out–I looked through the new manual, but didn’t see anything on using Fusion apps.
    In any event, it still requires SSID switching back and forth to access the Internet or use apps that access the ships’ NMEA2000 data over wi-fi.
    Raymarine is allocating development resources to add functionality to its latest MFDs. These regular updates are great, but by requiring a closed wi-fi network many of these new features will not be used by their customers. (Suggesting the resources could be better applied elsewhere.)
    As one such customer, it is frustrating that Raymarine seems to refuse to listen to user feedback on this issue.

  22. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Good Raymarine video on what Dragonfly can do. Impressive:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46qceDv12rE&feature=share

  23. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Sorry to report that Navico has filed a patent infringement suit against Raymarine over Dragonfly downscanning. I have no idea how valid the claims are but maybe some legal beagles out there will investigate:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/139040664/Navico-v-Raymarine

  24. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Interesting! Victron has joined the Raymarine/Empirebus relationship so that “With this system the Victron MultiPlus {inverter/charger} can be monitored and controlled via the Raymarine display.”

  25. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Wow, Raymarine’s Evolution AutoPilot really did make it to market in June, in multiple packages for different size and type boats too:
    http://www.defender.com/raymarine-autopilots.jsp

  26. David Lenard says:

    Fitted our first Evolution Autopilot this week very impressive bit of kit.
    Maybe this is the new Evolution in Autopilots.

  27. Fitted our first Evolution Autopilot this week very impressive bit of kit.
    Maybe this is the new Evolution in Autopilots.

  28. Tell me more, David! Mine is due to arrive in mid-July, to replace an AP21. I see RayMarine has the manuals posted on their website, and, unlike earlier autopilot instructions for mounting a compass sensor, no draconian requirements for placement. Any thoughts on optimal sensor location in a sailboat?

  29. Adam says:

    I see the Evolution manual recommends a rudder reference unit although it doesn’t require it. Has anyone tried the Evolution on an inboard without rudder reference? How is the performance?

  30. Anonymous says:

    Hartley
    AP21 is and was a good Autopilot.
    Raymarine’s evolution EV is more than just a magnetic compass providing heading information to an autopilot.
    The way I read it, its two solid state compass and gyros working in two plains giving the autopilot a 3 dimensional picture of the vessels movement.
    The answer to your question is it can be mounted just about any where so long as the magnetic field around it dose not change. Still treat it like a normal compass, We are fitting some on some steel sailing boats and will report the out come.

  31. Anonymous says:

    I would always recommend fitting a rudder feed back unit to any autopilot. The more info the autopilot can get the better it will perform.

  32. Thank You, sir! Regarding the rudder reference – I have one already mounted for the j300X/AP22, will it work if I connect it to the Evolution? (I know stuff like depth sounder transducers are brand agnostic, but don’t know about rudder references)
    Hartley

  33. Anonymous says:

    If you see the specs, you see that there is an option for a rudder ref..
    http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=7725&collectionid=82&col=7717

  34. Not my question – I know there is an input for a sensor on the controller, what I’m wondering is if I can use the existing sensor instead of buying a new one from RayMarine. Are all rudder position sensors the same inside?
    Hartley

  35. Anonymous says:

    ACU-200, ACU-300 and ACU-400 comes with a rudder reference unit in the box.

  36. Ahh – OK, then I’ll just swap out the one I have. hopefully, the cable won’t need any more wires..;-}
    Hartley

  37. Frank says:

    Any more testimonials of people actually using the Evolution autopilot? How does it compare to Simrad autopilots? How accurate is it within a steel hull? How can it be precise when affected by the magnetic field of the hull? It seems like an amazing system but it’s so new that there are no online reviews… Cheers!

  38. I guess I should provide an update..
    The rudder sensor had to be changed out (not difficult) and the cables were not usable (a little more work, not tooo bad..:-)
    My impression was that it was better at keeping my boat on the course line than my older AP22, and 1-2 degree course corrections were meaningful, unlike the older unit, which seemed to have a much larger dead band. It also appears to me much more resistant to heading errors based on rolling & pitching (but still not perfect!).
    The only issues I had with the Evolution was that there seems to be some magnetic anomaly on my boat it hasn’t been able to compensate for – though the older unit may well have had it too, I only noticed it because of the heading input integrating the radar display to the chart display.
    I have no idea about a steel boat, I’m afraid.

  39. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Thanks, Hartley! A better place for this conversation might be the entry I wrote after getting an Evolution demo in late July:
    http://www.panbo.com/archives/2013/07/raymarine_2013_demo_boat_gs165_the_rmk-9_keypad_more.html

  40. Richard says:

    Just a further comment on EMPIRBUS on Hallberg Rassy. I was promised the password by HR and now they refuse to give it to me. I have small things like wanting to replace bulbs with led’s and lower fuse settings …extra lights were installed and connected to existing circuits so lights keep tripping and I cannot do the simple adjustment of a fuse setting! The thought of being in a remote place and having to try and sort out issues over expensive satphone connections doesn’t do it for me. If I’d realised that HR would be so pig headed I would never have bought an HR in the first place!! It is not as though the system is that difficult to understand!

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