I'll have a look, Brian. I need some education in this area, too, and I just saw that Steve D'Antonio is giving a free webinar about "Advanced charging system, battery bank, and DC wiring design" on Monday:

http://www.proboat.com/proboat-events-online/

As a service tech for over 35 years I can honestly say the the current products from Xantrex are of such poor quality and problematic that I highly recommend to anyone that wants an honest opinion that they consider several other manufacturers that are still building reliable and quality chargers and inverters. My hands down preference is Victron, and I have no affiliation and I only install the equipment, I don't sell any of it. bstrongs comment that his Prosine has been a pain in the butt makes me wonder why he would replace it with another Xantrex model. Simply renaming something does not make it of better quality.

I'd say buy Victron or Mastervolt instead.

Both have a good range of stuff that is technically very sound.

Their head offices are about 20 km from each other here in the Netherlands. As a result they compete fiercely against each other, resulting in better quality products for the consumer.

Kees

(No relationship to either other than a satisfied customer. Although you could say I am geographically biased, I live in the Netherlands.)

I am now looking at Victron and Mastervolt at 3kva. They seem to be priced around $2500 versus around $1500. for the Xantrex Freedom SW 3000.
Are there design, service availability, warranty, features, and/or observable quality differences that will help make the decision?
Thank you, Brian

Brian, The previous comments should answer your question. There is a very good reason the Xantrex is less money and even at $1500.00 you have to ask yourself if you are will to pay that much for a product with a high probability of failure and will require at least returns for service and the cost that entails. Even though there is a warranty you pay the shipping to get it fixed, and add the down time when you will have nothing. It is like buying safety equipment, you can spend a couple of thousand dollars for a life raft or a few dollars at the tire store for an inner tube but which would be the prudent choice. There are still many cases out there where you do indeed get what you pay for. There are some areas where it might make sense to spend less but you still get less and then there are the times when spending less will cost you much more over the long run. Do a search on the Xantrex products and research, then do the same for Victron or Mastervolt. The answers will quickly appear. Beware of comments on a piece of equipment like, "my so an so widget has worked flawlessly for ten years so what is all of the fuss about?" The equipment from many manufacturers today are unfortunately not what that same manufacturer put out ten years ago or even a few years ago, which is why the continuing testing by folks like Ben is so important to the rest of us.

Cap'n Chuck I respect your perception of company quality differences. Look at what is happening to long respected Toyota's quality reputation right now.
I am actually just requesting 2/3kva product information specifics:
"Are there design, service availability, warranty, features, and/or observable quality differences that will help make the decision?"
Thank you, Brian

Victron is a bit more industrial than Mastervolt. For instance, on the low end chargers (20-30A) they let the fan run all the time. Mastervolt makes them temperature controlled. The Victron design choice makes for a more reliable (simpler) but noisier system.

Mastervolt has the edge if you want an extensive system with many devices, check out their 'masterbus'.

I have no clue on most of your other Q's as those depends on how much support & service you can get locally (in your country).

Find an installer or dealer that you trust.

Based on my own advice I've selected Mastervolt for my next boat -- master shunt & battery monitor, three DC/DC converters, battery charger and inverter. All controlled from a simple graphical display with 1 button & touchscreen.

When I discovered that 100 amps was not enough to quickly recharge my 1400 amp hour battery bank I went shopping for a second inverter/charger. If money was no object, I would have selected Victron based on the thought process that goes into their designs. But I could not afford to start over, so I ended up adding another Xantrex 2500 watt inverter for about $600 (refurbished).

Victron is the only product I know about that allows the inverter do more than just load share on a generator. If the generator reaches it's limit, the Victron inverter will stop charging and switch to generating power in tandem with the generator. They have presented several interesting concepts via testing and white papers on load balancing off-grid.

You can search and find these on the internet - or download a copy from my website at:

http://server.ebaugh.net

Click on the Defever link on the left side of the page. I found them very interesting reading.

I think you are right to be concerned about service and support, but my experience with Xantrex is not stellar, so it would not take much to make an improvement.

Although I have no experience with either, I think the Magnum and Outback brands were started by ex-Xantrex people after Xantrex gobbled up Heart and Trace. I've heard from other cruisers, but not experienced myself that they provide better technical support.

I saw the Freedom SW2000 and SW3000 at the Miami show. Both look the same but completely different from the family of inverter/chargers of Xantrex. I am guessing this to be a new platform design. Don't know much about the reliability of this one, its a fresh product. The SW3000 is more feature rich than the SW2000 and has support for the AGS and SCP. Xantrex makes another product called XW for renewable market, which uses the same AGS and SCP. I am hoping the SW3000 to be well designed using experience of other products. bstrong, for rice/watt, features and tech-support, go with Xantrex. My 2 cents on engineering perspective. Feel the weight of unit.. if its too light its a high-frequency design more prone to failures like the prosine. If the unit feels heavy, its a low-frequency design less prone to failures like the RVGS or XWs.

I will be installing the sw3000 and scp soon and will report.
Brian

My sw3000 arrived on friday so it will install this coming week. It weighs 75 lbs so hopefully the extra weight does make it heavily reliable. We will see. The SCP control panels are delayed so maybe arriving to meet up by install completion. Brian

My Xantrex SW3000 is now installed and running and is, in a word, quiet [unlike my old prosine 2000 which always seemed to be in labor]. Of course the technologies are different and it is 3000 vs 2000 W.
The quality of the unit appears excellent and it is an easy install - as long as your existing cables reach easily as in my case. You do need a strong back though as 75 lbs seems much heavier if it goes high.
Also note that you really do need the 'optional' SCP - system control panel [$185 street] to use the sw3000 properly. Otherwise you are stuck with default settings and no real monitoring data - which would likely cost plenty in battery dollars over time. The scp will not ship until around 4/9 so you might as well wait. I told xantrex they screwed up by not selling the scp as part of the package and I think they privately agree. Otherwise the xantrex support is excellent, once you have the correct telephone number: 866-519-1470.
Brian

Further to the necessity of the SCP, system control panel, option. Xantrex is air shipping me an SCP as my SW3000 is exhibiting a few quirks, at least as best I can observe with the limited tools and meters I have. More on this later but I will tell you that Xantrex is being quite responsive - as you would hope and expect when launching a new product. iMarineUSA, my supplier, has also been very helpful so I would buy from them anytime. They are in CA and I am in CT but they ship from a warehouse in NJ. You quickly get a first name relationship with them which in the virtual world is invaluable. More when the SCP arrives. Brian

Well, I have been around the computer biz since 1960 so who am I to be surprised? The SCP requires RJ45 terminators in the unused xanbus network ports on both the SCP and the SW3000. This is actually no great surprise when you think about it but it would help if Xantrex mentioned it in their product documentation and provided them - they are not easily found locally. I think Xantrex is learning much about the difference between marketing and engineering with this product. The engineering I think will prove excellent but not all would have my perspective. Customers have come to expect 'out of the box' delight [as demonstrated by Apple]. RJ45 terminators arriving tomorrow. Brian

SW3000 installed and purring along beautifully
after stress exercises. Note that two rj45
terminators MUST be installed in the unused
xanbus ports and should be provided despite
no mention in any documentation.
Xantrex provided them and good support
when asked but need to improve their install
manual. Engineering gets an A but writers
get a D.
Do not consider installing without the optional
SCP. You would not be able to configure or
manage the SW3000.
Brian

fix the search function

I am on my second Xantrex unit. The first failed after 2 years. It was a prosine 3000, It is describe as field repairable on thier web site. But when I called Xantrex I was told to ship the unit back and they would repair it ( it was still under warranty). I was then told it would be 6 weeks before I received my repaired unit back. As I was ready to leave for the Bahamas this was not a solution I wanted. I asked to talk to a supervisor and was told one would call me. NEVER heard from anyone there, not a word.... So to get the boat working I ordered a new Xantex freedom SW3000 so my trip to the Bahamas could go on. I know, stupid.. stupid... stupid... I get to the Bahamas and the new unit fails after only two weeks. I called and every person I have talked to has confirmed that they consider Xantrex products to be low cost disposable units. I am returning this unit to west marine!! I have learned my lesson, I just hope mastervolt control panel covers the whole from the removed Xantrex panel. I am now using a large car charger to charge my house batteries. :(

Southern Belle
Green Turtle Cay Bahamas...

I have a xantrex prosine 2000 in my boat. When it works, it works great. However, just after 2 years of ownership (translation, just after the warranty was up), the control panel failed. A new one was $300 bucks, and it took Xantrex over 1 month to send it to me. Luckily this happened in the off season. If the whole unit ever fails, I'll be pissed.. But if that happens, I will probably get a Magnum or other inverter/charger. The Xantrex fits really well in the space I have for it, though.. I guess that's the main advantage for now. I wouldn't buy Xantrex again either.

My old Xantex/Statpower Inverter worked flawlessly for 10 years, despite being frequently pushed way way past the limits. Imagine running a 1 1/2hp table-saw on an 800 watt inverter and ripping 1 1/2 inch teak! In the Tropics!

I still have it, but recently upgraded to a 1000 watt unit from a friend, which seems to be doing well. I don't blow its trip-switch quite so often. Isn't that nice?

And my new 40 amp Xantex charger with remote is also doing well. Right now I am 90 miles from the equator in a non-aircon boat and the unit is doing great. The fan comes on from time to time and is a bit noisy, I grant. I like the unit's ability to be reduced in power, which suits those times I hook it to a 600 watt gasoline generator. So far so good!

So all in all, I am very happy with what those Vancouver Xantrex guys are doing. They've never let me down.

The Xantrex Prosine charger/inverters were certainly not their best engineering effort. I have replaced mine with the new SW3000 and it is a vastly superior device. Be sure to order the optional SCP system control panel as without it you will be flying blind. Remember also to terminate the extra ports on the Xanbus connector. Brian

the installation instructions state the sw 3000 can not be powered by single phase ac power.
with 30 amp single phase shore power being the norm it appears i must locate a tranfer switch to single phase to convert. those that have done the install what type/ brand switch and where did you purchace it.
thanks
Bill H

So Brian what's your impression of the SW3000 after having it for a couple of months???

I'm looking at replacing my six year old Prosine 2.0. It's needing repairs and not worth it to me to repair. I'm inclined to Xantrex simply because the SCP panel will work in the existing cutout that I had for the 2.0 remote panel.

Looked at and like the Mastervolt but their remote panel appears to be a completely different dimension.

Thanks,
Jeff

Bill,
I contacted Xantrex Tech support yesterday. I was advised that the Installation Guide has an error. I was told that I could wire the AC input in single phase. I followed the tech's advise an the unit appears to be working correctly.
Contact Xantrex techies for guidance.
Once I get the system properly configured I plan on depleting my batteries to determine whether I'm getting the full 150 amp charging capabilities.

Regards,

Dave N.

Jeff, Been cruzin so my regrets for the slow answer. SW3000 is fine by my measure running quiet and cool but my scp did not fit in the old hole for the prosine panel.
Note also that xantrex had done a recall on some of the early units so make sure to read their www site about that. Brian

Prior to installing the SW3000 I had a Freedom 20 inverter/charger. The old charger had an irritating hum that was also audible through our flat screen when running off the inverter. Even the coffee maker exibited a hum or buzzing noise.
The newly installed SW3000 runs quietly and I'm not getting any noise out of my electronics.
After depleting my 660 ah battery bank, the SCP indicated that the SW3000 was charging at 146 amps.

That's the good news. On the down side there were a couple of surprises. Xantrex markets the SCP as, "a single point of control to setup and monitor an entire system,". Silly me, I assumed that monitoring an entire system would include the battery monitoring capabilities that I had with my Link Battery Montitor. I had ripped out my Link monitor. In the process had cut the wiring harness in numerous places because that option was easier than pulling it through 25 feet of tubing.
So now I have another wiring harness on order.
The other surprise came when I discovered that the new and improved SW3000 doesn't include an echo-charger to top up the starter battery. The old inverter/charger had an echo-charger. So now I'm waiting for an echo-charger as well.

Last bit of this rant. The SW3000 comes with a networking cable for the remote on/off switch. The SCP requires a networking cable, but none is included in the package. The supplied networking cable physically fits into the the SCP, but it is not compatible with the SCP. So, you have to run to the locat hardware store to by a proper cable.

Overall, I'm happy with the unit. I'm not impressed with what I consider to be some basic features that are not included.

Cheers,

Dave N.