Panbo

Furuno MaxSea PC Radar, only in Europe?

... written for Panbo by Kees Verruijt and posted on Jan 25, 2013
furuno_maxsea_pc_radar_german.jpg

What is it with radar on a PC screen that seems so enticing to yachties? Is it the fact that you don't need a MFD? Or do we want the ability to use the digital charts of our choice with the radar of our choice? Last week I wrote about how OpenCPN now supports Garmin and Simrad radar, or at least partially, and it was in that entry's comments where we learned about the existence of Furuno MaxSea PC Radar. Yes it is possible to use Furuno's excellent radar with the excellent charting program MaxSea Time Zero without purchasing a NavNet 3D or TZ Touch MFD!  But right now it may only be possible in France or Germany...

So far only Furuno Deutschland is actively marketing PC Radar online, but Furuno France also has it available as a special package. Actually PC Radar has apparently been available since January, 2012. Maybe it wasn't marketed very loudly, but if you look carefully there are some hints to be found. I found a March blog entry at maxsea.com (screenshot below) that details how MaxSea and Furuno were supplying a PC Radar solution for British sailor Sam Davies' use in the 2012/2013 Vendée Globe. On those extreme racers every kilo counts, so she was supplied with a solution that does away with the MFD, reusing her Microsoft Windows computer. It seems we haven't been paying attention, only becoming aware of PC Radar now that it's getting increased marketing.

furuno_maxsea_sam_davies_PC-Radar.jpg

That blog contains an interesting discussion, where someone points out that:

Commenter: Hi, this looks great and all, but the solution provided contradicts with the information provided in the FAQ about directly connecting an antenna to MaxSeaTZ. Which is true? 
MaxSea says: Dear Soffi, Thank you for your comment. Both are true in fact, the PC Radar solution is only available in France and Germany at this moment and requires technical intervention. For other markets, the FAQ is 100% correct.    -- Best regards, MaxSea Team

Interesting, no?  FurunoUSA replied to a Panbo inquiry as follows: "As far as a PC Only Radar is concerned, we have no plans to market such a product in the US."

Furuno and the competition

All of the Big Four have MFDs that are well received and generally run modern looking software. All four now have touch enabled displays. Furuno has taken the high road and has chosen to supply very good looking multi touch MFDs with fast processors and large memory capacity. This does make them the most expensive though. There are cheaper sonar/chartplotter combos but these do not support the digital radars. This is a different approach from the others who all supply plotters in wide size ranges that cover low end to high end using the same or similar user interfaces. They also support radar in low end ranges -- for instance the Lowrance HDS 5 has a list price of $ 695 and still supports radar. I think Furuno can't supply such systems because their TimeZero software base just can't be poured into such small hardware at a cost effective price level.

However, this same MaxSea Time Zero software base is also an asset. Furuno is the only one of the big four that has its own software that is up-to-date and and capable enough to run radar overlay. Raymarine's Raytech is behind the curve, Garmin's software is targeted towards planning, not live navigation, and Navico doesn't really have any software packages meant for the general public (there is B&G Deckman, but that is meant for tactical racing, and there is a software SDK for radar integration with 3rd party software but that requires a $ 1295 license.)

Apparently Furuno Germany and France have are seizing this opportunity to outflank the competition and sell more MaxSea and more radar scanners.

The Furuno PC radar solution

Both Furuno France and Furuno Germany market a PC RADAR solution. The French site does not report a price though.

Furuno Germany has the most detailed information, including prices. They also reveal what modifications are needed: new software in the radar scanner. They released a combination kit consisting of a power supply and this software upgrade. There are four versions of this kit -- 12 or 24 V for each of DRS2D and DRS4D, all costing € 455. As Henning reported earlier, this price is lower than apparently the same PSU when bought for use in a TZ Touch network.

So this means the minimal system, assuming you already have a GPS interfaced to your existing laptop or PC, is going to cost:

MaxSea TimeZero Explorer€ 1500
DSR2D radar scanner€ 2074
Software upgrade + Power Supply Unit€ 455
10m radar cable€ 184
Total€ 4213

which means that it will be about € 5000 including 19% German VAT. If this solution is ever available in the USA, expect the same sort of prices in USD (I see the DRS2D at $ 1900-2000 online). Furuno_MaxSea_NavNet_PC_Radar.jpg

Advertised as the ideal solution whether you already have a PC or not, the German brochure even explicitly mentions that you can also use an external touchscreen with the PC, so they really want to emphasize that a MFD is not necessary.

At first sight this seems like a big saving, but it does mean a EUR/$ 2000 investment beyond the cost of the radar scanner. For that kind of money you can't buy a NN3D (an MFD8 is $3000), but you can get a 7" to 9" Garmin, Furuno or Navico MFD. Maybe not touch, but still. You do end up with the excellent MaxSea Time Zero. So it is really a question of how you use your radar/plotter and how much you value PC navigation.

Hard- and software requirements

I checked the requirements on the PC to see if these pose any issues. In fact the official requirements are quite reasonable. Interestingly Furuno has lower minimal requirements than MaxSea itself. There is support for Windows 7, Vista and XP, 32 or 64 bits. Hardware minimum is 1 GB RAM, 40 GB disk and a video card with Direct X 9.0c with Pixel Shader 3.0 support. Gone are the MaxSea requirements that the CPU is at least 2 GHz and a Core2Duo. This means that you need a relatively new laptop or PC, with either a discrete graphics card or if it has Intel graphics, at least Intel GMA X3000 or GMA 950 video. This means that you could get away with a 2nd generation Atom, but it will be a minimal system. Given my personal experience I'd recommend an i3 or better -- you won't get any fluency with low end hardware.

Concluding thoughts

I'm actually quite amazed that they did this so soon after releasing the TZTouch MFDs, especially the black box version. The BB version is limited to a 1280x800 or 1280x1024 resolution, whereas PCs easily drive 1920x1080 or 2560x1600 displays. On a larger bridge I'd much prefer a 24" high resolution screen over the courser screen available with the black box. Also interesting is that it is a Germany and France only proposition for now. It seems like a rather arbitrary, and possibly confusing, marketing decision that may have worked BI (Before Internet).

Now let's see how the competition reacts.  Will Garmin release a full navigation package?  When will Raymarine update Raytech?  Will Navico drop the SDK end user license or lower its price?  Will FurunoUSA follow their European colleagues? Watch this space...

Comments

> What is it with radar on a PC screen that seems so enticing to yachties? Is it the fact that you don't need a MFD?

Not just yachties. My simplistic observation is that the trend is MFDs for exposed use, PCs for comfy wheelhouses.

> Or do we want the ability to use the digital charts of our choice with the radar of our choice?

Holy Grail!

I would add that MFDs go obsolete faster than PCs (at this point in time). Maybe that is just me.

Posted by: norse at January 25, 2013 4:02 PM | Reply

I think two things are happening here. First is it looks to be a higher adoption rate of PC navigation in Europe, and second it gives Furuno a hand in PC Navigation if and when it ever really takes off.

Posted by: John at January 26, 2013 9:37 AM | Reply

One thing that Kees didn't get into is system convenience and redundancy. Gizmo is a good example. When the NavNet MFD12 was installed on the flying bridge it was a bit of an annoyance to have to power it up in order to use MaxSea or Nobeltec TZ with DRS2D radar on the Mac mini in the main cabin. You could put the MFD12 in 'sleep' mode to save power but if the MFD failed, neither would get radar. But there was no way around it because the MFD12 contained the 48v radar power supply.

Now Furuno has loaned me a TZT14 along with a separate DRS2D power supply, so I think that means that all it would take is a bit of unlock software to give Gizmo two independent methods of controlling and displaying the radar. Isn't that a valuable feature (and good selling point) that FurunoUSA could easily add?

Incidentally, the German PC Radar brochure also shows Furuno's three models of NavNet black box fishfinders working directly with MaxSea TZ, but I'm not sure that any NavNet radar bigger than the DRS2D will work.

Posted by: Ben at January 27, 2013 9:12 AM | Reply

Ben,

What do you think about the TZT 14?

I'm thinking about the TZT9 for my boat.

Thanks!

Posted by: david at January 27, 2013 7:00 PM | Reply

Ben and fans of Pc navigation. Be sure to check out Nobeltec TimeZero software and the new Pc radar available from them. Much cheaper than the options listed

Posted by: thefan at January 27, 2013 9:26 PM | Reply

This news is precisely why I'm holding off on a radar purchase. I have the required comfy pilothouse, and am familiar enough with PCs/OpenCPN to prefer that solution over an MFD, which I consider expensive, limited and easily outdated.

I just hope my push-off date for voyaging is slightly beyond that of the introduction of gear like this, which closely matches my preferences.

Posted by: Marc Dacey at January 28, 2013 5:40 AM | Reply

Actually that german screenshot says "this solution is perfect if you do NOT currently have a PC on board".

You got it wrong in the article.

Posted by: Ben Kay at January 28, 2013 9:36 AM | Reply

Hi thefan,

Are you referring to IR2, the existing Koden based solution, or something new (that I am not aware of, but then that's entire possible?) I'm pretty sure that the only option that is available right now consists of the aging IR2 hardware. If Nobeltec's TimeZero supported Furuno DRS radars it would be logical that Furuno USA would be aware of this?

I've had a Nobeltec Admiral solution with the Koden MD5B scanner and the Ethernet black box installed from 2005 to 2010, and it worked but it certainly wasn't any cheaper -- I spent well over EUR 5000 on that.

Kees

Posted by: Kees in reply to thefan at January 28, 2013 10:01 AM | Reply

I did get a Nobeltec email announcing a package of MDS-8-2kW 20-inch radome with direct Ethernet connection and a copy of Trident software for $2,300. But I can't find anything about it on the Nobeltec site and I wonder if that radome predates their current IR2 radars? (Nobeltec of course is owned by the same company that owns MaxSea with Furuno and Trident is closely related to MS TZ.)

Posted by: Ben in reply to thefan at January 28, 2013 10:06 AM | Reply

Hi Ben Kay,

A last moment change in the last picture shown in the article does indeed juxtapose two sentences with opposite meaning. The German brochure mentions several setups, one where you can use your existing PC or laptop, and one where you use a new touch screen computer.

Thank you for pointing out my error, I'll adjust the text of the article to more accurately reflect that buying a new computer is also an option.

Posted by: Kees in reply to Ben Kay at January 28, 2013 10:10 AM | Reply

From http://cms.nobeltec.com/CMS/Products/NavigationSoftware/TimeZeroTrident.aspx

Trident supports Nobeltec InSight radars and the best of class Furuno FAR2XX7 radar making it ideal for light commercial and workboat users who want to optimize radar integration. Trident also integrates with Furuno’s entire DRS radar line (with at least one MFD on the network)

Posted by: Kees at January 28, 2013 10:33 AM | Reply

Apologies to Kees. It was me who changed the last image without realizing that it conflicted with his text. Sorry, Kees!

But I think that the idea of using PC Radar with an all-in-one touchscreen PC is interesting. I wonder if someone will package it with, say, a Hatteland X-Series. I also wonder if some boaters with protected wheelhouses will try Radar PC with inexpensive consumer all-in-ones like the HP TouchSmart.

Posted by: Ben in reply to Ben Kay at January 28, 2013 11:38 AM | Reply

It is in fact something new Kees. As Ben indicated, Nobetlec has recently put out the MDS 1R and 8R which is a 12 and 20 inch version of a PC radar. This is direct connect via Ethernet! with the deals they have with TimeZero software, it most definitely is a cheaper option. The connection of a DRS radar is strictly political obviously, as they can make it work with "technical intervention". its not far away gents!

Posted by: thefan at January 28, 2013 11:58 AM | Reply

From a sailors point of view, I like the idea of a MFD as well as sending the radar signal to a PC. There is no way a computer display of any kind will survive mounted in my cockpit. Because of this I have a Garmin 4212 mounted there. It would be nice if I could also use the Garmin GMR-24 to overlay radar on Coastal Explorer below decks where most of my route planning takes place using a Mac-mini. I'm not interested in eliminating the 4212 - just want to use the signal on the PC as well. I'll pay for the license - just make it available, Garmin.

Posted by: Richard C at January 28, 2013 3:33 PM | Reply

Richard, personally I couldn't agree more. A safety feature like radar needs high reliability, and a laptop or computer does not offer that, in my experience.

I've used with a Nobeltec/Koden/Panasonic CF07 for 5 years. Since three years I have a MFD + PC combo and I much prefer the MFD for underway work (better uptime, easier to use, uses less power.)

Posted by: Kees in reply to Richard C at January 30, 2013 6:32 AM | Reply

hi kees ,
dont forget that in europe it is very good bussines to sale charts for dealers. In US the charts are free. I think for US it is not so much profit on that system :)

regards
robo

Posted by: robo at February 11, 2013 9:18 AM | Reply

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