Panbo

Simrad RS35 & Lowrance Link-8: DSC VHF + AISrx + N2K = YES!

... written for Panbo by Ben Ellison and posted on Nov 16, 2012
Simrad_RS35_VHF_AISrx_n_HS35_handset__.jpg

It would be interesting if the new Simrad RS35 VHF and its optional HS35 wireless mic could actually work channels 9 and 16 simultaneously, but I think that the product image above is just a Photoshop mistake. However, this radio and its Lowrance Link-8 sibling bring together a unique feature set that's much more valuable, I think. These radios include a two-channel AIS receiver, like the very successful Standard Horizon Matrix AIS line, but they add a NMEA 2000 interface and that should add up to all sorts of plug'n'play goodness...

Consider the many boats out there that have an MFD navigation system with NMEA 2000 but no AIS and also a regular fixed VHF that's probably not wired via NMEA 0183 to a GPS. (At least in the U.S. "probably" is the correct term according to this USCG warning.) If the boat owner replaces that radio with one of these (the same antenna and power connection should work fine) and then plugs its N2K port into the nav network, all of the following should or could be true:

  • The Simrad RS35 or Lowrance Link-8 VHF will get GPS info from the nav network and therefore can place an automated DSC distress call (once the boat's MMSI number is entered). Other DSC features like direct calling and position polling should also work well, and the VHF can be an alternate display of position, SOG, and COG info. Plus these VHFs include a MOB function.
  • The radio will display and alarm AIS targets, but better yet, I think, all that AIS target data should also be available for display on whatever MFD or nav PC is on the N2K system. AIS over NMEA 2000 had some early issues but I think they are mostly history now.
  • The boat will now be ready to use the new personal AIS safety beacons like the Kannad R10. I don't know if the RS35 and Link-8 are programmed to pay real attention to the beacon messages yet (as discussed here), but I do know from other DSC radios that devices like this with relatively big speakers and amps can really get your attention if they want to!  Of course the beacon messages will also go out on the N2K network.
  • DSC call data should also go out on the N2K network, which should lead to a variety of standard and proprietary features. I'm not positive where the line between the two is -- DSC over N2K has been rare -- but I think that any well-programmed N2K chart display could plot the position and MMSI of a distress or direct call. These Navico radios also have something called Buddy Tracking which can automatically poll a friend's DSC VHF (if he or she enables auto polling responses) and I imagine that Navico MFDs will be able to put that polling on your chart screen.
  • Finally, the radios themselves should be able to place direct DSC calls to AIS targets and that feature can be neatly integrated over N2K with a plotter, as Garmin has demonstrated for years!
I used "should" on that last line because Navico doesn't mention direct AIS target calls in the specs for the RS35 and Link-8, but I'll be surprised if it's missing. And how about the overall possibilities? Yes, you can get most all these capabilities using a Standard Horizon GX2150 -- the update to the 2100 that innovated VHF/AISrx in 2009 -- or even using a standalone AIS receiver. But you're apt to enter a NMEA 0183 hell of skinny wires, different baud rates, and other incompatibilities that will make an RS35 at $399 retail, or a Link-8 at $299, look like a good deal...

Lowrance_Link-8_VHF_AISrx.jpg

Of course the actual radio performance of the RS35 and Link-8 are important, as is the user interface. I notice that they don't have the soft keys that I find quite useful on both the Garmin VHF200 and the SH GX2150 currently installed on Gizmo, but I'll certainly reserve judgement. Maybe Navico makes operations easy just with hard keys and knobs. And the dual HS35 wireless mics -- which come with inductive charging cradles and are purportedly capable of 100m range -- certainly are interesting. Kees Verruijt reports that they are big, as his METS photos below indicate, but that may be OK, especially if the menu fonts are easier to read than those on Garmin's wired and wireless remote mics. (I like and use the Garmin GHS 10 a lot but also wish I could turn it off or mute it from the main radio; I wonder if Simrad thought of that?) 

mets2012_Simrad_HS35_courtesy Kees Verruijt.jpg

Kees also got a shot of the Link-8 in AIS mode, which I think is also possible on the wireless remote mics that can go with the RS35. No targets are shown but this looks similar to what the SH Matrix AIS and its wired Ram Mic 3 can do...

mets2012_Lowrance Link-8 courtesy Kees.jpg

And finally here's a Kees shot of the whole new Simrad VHF family, including the more petite RS12. It's a more standard Class D DSC VHF except that it too has a NMEA 2000 data port, which means that a lot of those plug'n'play features listed above still apply. I don't know why there aren't more N2K radios available already, but I'm certainly glad to see Navico offer several new choices.

METS2012_new_Simrad_VHF_courtesy_Kees.jpg

Posted by Ben on November 16, 2012 1:00 PM

Comments

PS I think the RS35 may even be welcome on boats that already have an AIS transponder but don't have the AIS/DSC/N2K integration features.

Also note that SimNet is not mentioned in the RS35 and RS12 specs. In my view SimNet is a perfectly good N2K-like connector and cabling systems for many boats, with some special features, but having it slowly go away will make NMEA 2000 less confusing.

Posted by: Ben at November 16, 2012 2:07 PM | Reply

Ben,

Can you please confirm that RS35 will accept a DSC call initiated from Zeus, NSE or NSS with AIS?

I know it *should* work, but from your post from December 2011 about Vesper Marine being able to do the same, I reached out to them last week and eleven months later they will only endorse a couple of Icom radios, and reiterate that it *should* work with other NMEA 183 radios.

All I am saying is yes, this *should* work, but so far appears elusive. As of last week, I decided to go IC-M604 for our refit because it will take calls initiated with the Vesper, but I would go with RS25 (and its wireless remotes) if there is confirmation that it will take calls initiated from Zeus.

Posted by: Xavier Itzmann at November 16, 2012 3:03 PM | Reply

+1

Happy to have 3 7 sprong simnet joiners in a row and enough simnet to mico c cables

Since my rs82 and 87 don,t get the needed positions over n2k I might move to the rs 35

Posted by: Hendrik at November 16, 2012 3:18 PM | Reply

@Ben "Also note that SimNet is not mentioned .... but having it slowly go away will make NMEA 2000 less confusing."

Amen to that.

Posted by: Paul at November 16, 2012 5:57 PM | Reply

I think Garmin was the first with this kind of VHF with the option in the MFD call on radio.
http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/07/garmin_vhf_300_ais_xhd_radar_more.html

Posted by: TCY at November 17, 2012 8:54 AM | Reply

Finally!!There was an earlier Lowrance with limited N2K but adapter cables were an issue.I would buy the Simrad to plug right into my N2K Simnet.
Inductive chargers seem to be a big generator of RF.
I know the Uniden ones put noise out...affecting an onboard 12v stereo.
I prefer hard wired/contacts chargers.

Posted by: Peter at November 17, 2012 12:45 PM | Reply

Sorry, Xavier, I can not "confirm that RS35 will accept a DSC call initiated from Zeus, NSE or NSS with AIS." I've learned more about these radios since I wrote the entry but am still unsure about the AIS target calling, especially from an MFD.

Let's clarify that there are two ways that a VHF radio like the RS35 and Link-8 can place direct DSC calls to AIS targets. One is right from the radio, just picking a target off the list, specifying the working channel you'd like talk with the target on, and hitting call button. That should be really easy to implement in these radios, even if it takes a software update (which can be done over N2K from Navico MFDs).

The other way, already possible over N2K with a Garmin MFD and VHF, is by selecting the AIS target off your display, picking the working channel, and sending the command to the radio. But understand that you still have to command the radio to execute the command. So there's not all that much difference, and in either case you are saved the pain of transcribing the target's MMSI # from one screen to another.

I should also note that many vessels, ships included, are not yet used to receiving direct DSC VHF calls and don't know how to acknowledge them. Or they don't have a VHF programmed with the same MMSI as their AIS transponder. However, with radios like this you still have the target's name right on your radio for placing a regular voice call.

Posted by: Ben in reply to Xavier Itzmann at November 18, 2012 11:55 AM | Reply

My experience from the handful of times when I have had the need is that reading the ship name off the AIS pop up box on my plotter and hailing them on 16 is 100% effective.

The one circumstance in which the DSC hailing would perhaps be helpful is for targets that are Class B equipped vessels that often show only an MMSI on the plotter and thus cannot be hailed by name but could in theory be hailed via DSC.

Posted by: Quitsa at November 18, 2012 4:28 PM | Reply

I've never even tried to contact via DSC a vessel not known to me, for the reason Ben notes above. However, I have found DSC to be exceptionally useful when buddy boating with other vessels that have DSC radios. It cuts a lot of hassle out of reaching your friends, and the loud alarm ensures that they hear your "hail", even if the radio is turned down. Our Matrix also shows a "missed call" on the screen if a hail came in when you were off the boat.

Posted by: Adam at November 19, 2012 12:42 AM | Reply

I purchased a Garmin VHf300 a few months back after being assured (in writing) that it would support the direct hailing of AIS targets using the radio. (Like Standard Horizon does.) After installing the radio (and sending it back for a software upgrade so it would work with GHS20 wireless mics), I learned that this features is actually not supported. If fact, it took several emails to get to the point where they even understood what I was talking about.

It is possible to hail AIS targets using the VHF300, but it requires a Garmin chartplotter. This would be a second best solution, but only if I had a Garmin chartplotter. (I don't.)

I mention all this as it would seem obvious that the new Navico VHFs would also support direct AIS hailing, but I wouldn't assume anything. This may not be a big deal to many, but when sailing offshore and and crossing shipping lanes it would be very helpful to be able quickly hail AIS vessels to confirm course, etc.

Posted by: Jeremy at November 22, 2012 2:01 PM | Reply

Jeremy,

it was exactly this point that made me chose a SH GX2000 over a VHF300 though I would have much preferred the black box configuration.
I have used the GX2000 for the past season and am happy:

- I can select an AIS target from the GX2000 and issue a call with about 5 key presses. The list on the radio is sorted by distance (I think). Be aware that in a crowded area, this quickly becomes impractical to the point where you are no longer able to use it. I think the list is truncated at maybe 10 entries. Even if it weren't, as you can only read a few lines and the scrolling speed is low, it would take minutes to scroll to position 70 down the list. In a crowded area, the interface via a chartplotter is the better or only way. However, I still prefer this method because it is quicker and more reliable on a bouncing boat.

- I can request a position from my SH HX851 handheld, get an automated reply and have the GX2000 output the position as 0183 DSC and DSE sentences and have a red dot appear on the chart in Coastal Explorer. The position request can be set to be sent repeatedly at a timed interval. This makes the dot in CE jump at intervals. It seems that you can't send manual position requests more frequently than the automatic interval of a few minutes.

- The GX2000 and HX851 work together as desired even if they are programmed to the same MMSI. The GX2000 does not respond to it's own position request and the HX851 responds to the request even though it uses the same MMSI that the HX851 itself is programmed to. I had doubts whether this would work but it does. Because of a change in legislation in Germany, this configuration is now legal.

- I can use both of the above functions also from a RAM mic in the cockpit.

- Having a hardwired cockpit station instead of a wireless is also why I am still happy with my purchase after this entries' Simrad model was released. I have mostly Simrad gear around the boat and have ditched my RS82 dual station black box VHF for the GX2000. Sure, I would like the Simrad's better design but not at the cost of a wireless mic.

- There is a second sepaker in the cockpit and the GX2000 allows for it's volume to be adjusted independently from the volume on the main unit at the nav station. The cockpit speaker even works when the RAM mic is not connected. I just can't change the volume (it uses the last volume setting).

I find it weird that the GX2000 and RAM mic cost only a fraction of the RS82 dual station installation it replaced but at the same time offers several times as much utility. I also find it weird that Simrad does not update their flagship models (RS87 and RS82) to support position output and positions request/response. Poor superyacht owners!
But be that as it may - I am happy.

Posted by: Henning in reply to Jeremy at November 23, 2012 4:34 AM | Reply

another thought:

The SH GX2000 has one NMEA0183 output at 4800 bit/s and two inputs, one fixed to 38400 bit/s and one at 4800 bit/s. My 0183 AIS transponder Weatherdock easyTRX2 has a function to send the sentences of the internal GPS intermixed with the VDM-sentences on the high speed port. So ideally I would just connect the easyTRX2 and the GX2000 via the high speed ports and be done.
But not so: the GX2000 stubbornly refuses to read the GLL sentences on the high speed port and demands them on the low speed port. So, voila, there we have our rat's nest of wires.
I think this pretty well underlines Ben's argument for NMEA2000 with VHF radios and I hear it. Just not at the price of a wireless mic, especially if the charger creates RFI.
And what about the volume of the speaker in the wireless mic? I have been surprised several times at how enormously loud you have to turn the volume in the cockpit in order to make out the conversation when underway. I usually forget to turn down the volume after docking and have on occasion been startled to the point of almost jumping overboard by a sudden burst of traffic on the VHF.
Is a battery powered handheld device giong to provide this much audio power and if so, for how long?

And a reminder:
When you are requested on the radio, using your cokpit station, to provide your position, do you have a display at hand giving you lat&lon in numbers?
And if you are given a position on the radio, do you have a way to write it down in the cockpit? I have wax crayons that write on the gelcoat.

Posted by: Henning at November 23, 2012 6:52 AM | Reply

I keep waiting for someone to build something like the R35 with AIS transponder integrated. One box, no external spliter, fewer wires, etc.

Posted by: svHaven at February 1, 2013 12:09 PM | Reply

That combo might be nice, but perhaps not possible given the tight regulations transponders are built to.

Posted by: Ben in reply to svHaven at February 1, 2013 1:18 PM | Reply

Navico supplied a PGN list for the Lowrance Link-8 and Simrad RS35 VHF/AISrx combo radiow with N2K:

127250 Vessel Heading
127258 Magnetic Variation
129025 Position, Rapid Update
129026 COG & SOG, Rapid Update
129029 GNSS Position Data
129033 Time & Date
129038 Class A position report (Rx,Tx)
129039 Class B position report (Rx,Tx)
129040 Class B extended position report (Rx, Tx)
129041 AIS Aids to Navigation (AtoN) Report
129283 Cross Track Error
129284 Navigation Data
129285 Navigation Route/WP Information
129792 DGNSS Broadcast binary message (Tx)
129793 UTC and date report (Tx)
129794 Class A static and voyage related data (rx, tx)
129795 Addressed binary message (tx)
129796 Acknowledge (tx)
129797 Binary broadcast message (tx)
129798 SAR Aircraft Position report (tx)
129799 Radio Frequency/Mode/Power
129800 UTC/Date enquiry (tx)
129801 Addressed safety msg (rx,tx)
129802 Broadcast safety msg (rx,tx)
129803 Interrogation (tx)
129804 Assignment Mode Command (tx)
129805 Data Link Management message (tx)
129807 AIS Group Assignment
129808 DSC Call Information
129809 AIS Class B “CS” Static Data Report, Part A
129810 AIS Class B “CS” Static Data Report, Part B
130074 Route and WP Service - WP List - WP Name & Position
130842 AIS and VHF Messages (Simrad Proprietary for AIS Class B ‘CS’)"

Also added this: "We are working on DSC calls to AIS targets as an on-going project and hope to offer this as a feature in both the radio and our MFD’s in future software updates."

Posted by: Ben at February 5, 2013 8:25 AM | Reply

Ben,
Is it fair to expect a VHF/AIS Transceiver in further evolution of the trend? Do you have an inside track on anything in the works?
DJ

Posted by: Anonymous in reply to Ben at February 13, 2013 1:04 AM | Reply

Sorry, haven't heard anything about a VHF/AIS Class B in the works, and sort of doubt it's possible given the strict build regulations.

Posted by: Ben in reply to Anonymous at February 13, 2013 7:37 AM | Reply

Will the Rs35 be able to be networked together with my raymarine e 120?

Posted by: Scott at March 3, 2013 8:12 PM | Reply

Does the link-8 display AIS targets and info without programming a MMSI? The user manual says a MMSI is required for AIS to work but I do not understand why?
Has anyone tried?

Posted by: Peter at April 4, 2013 12:37 PM | Reply

My question is whether or not it is possible to use the Simrad wireless remote mics with the Link 8? To my eye, the Link 8 and the RS35 are identical products, and removing the $2 in parts is likely to be more expensive than just leaving them in the link 8 and not offering that functionality in the specs, even though it is in fact built in and functional. Any ideas about this?

Posted by: Eliboat at April 28, 2013 2:10 PM | Reply

I'm really trying to stick with Simrad equipment, but they're making it difficult. I cannot believe they don't sell a wired remote unit for this thing like Standard Horizon does.

I don't need a wireless remote unit because I only need to use it at my helm. And, I don't want to have yet one more thing that needs to be charged or that can go dead unexpectedly. I also don't want to lose the bloody thing over the side. So I need a good, old-fashioned WIRED remote unit. And they don't make one.

Furthermore, i don't want to buy up to built-in AIS just to get the wired remote option because I already have the NAIS-400 transponder on NMEA2K.

I bought the RS12 NMEA2K VHF when I was configuring my system and it is perfect for my needs, except for the lack of a WIRED remote unit.

What is with this irrational wireless obsession? It's bloody mental.

Think I'm gonna ditch it for the Standard Horizon GX2000.

Posted by: Brian Engle at May 7, 2013 8:00 PM | Reply

Several points from the Simrad manuals online.

BOTH the old Navico and the new Standard PGNs for Class B Static Data are supported: 129039&129040 and 129809&129810. (RS35 and HS35 User Guide, p.73)

There is no AIS PPI on the HS35 screen (p.68) -- It doesn't say if the T/CPA Approach screen is shown on the HS35.

The mounting bracket for the HS35 includes an induction charger, so if you want a wired remote all you have to do is supply your own tether to the mic.

Peter asked if AIS targets are displayed if the MMSI has not been entered. The answer should be yes for any AIS receiver. The manual says the MMSI is required to use DSC functions, not AIS.

Posted by: norse at May 8, 2013 1:58 PM | Reply

Simrad documentation implies that the HS35 remote doesn't work with the RS12. If thats not the case, they dont make it clear.

Posted by: Anonymous in reply to norse at May 8, 2013 3:41 PM | Reply

Norse, thanks so much for keeping up with this stuff!

Anon, I'm not sure where you got confused but the RS12 definitely doesn't support the HS35 wireless mics.

Posted by: Ben in reply to norse at May 8, 2013 8:30 PM | Reply

Ben, the simrad site has contained errors, and retail marketing often suffers sins of omission. The usefulness and applicability of the wr20 remote commander is a case in point. This site has been updated in haste (and with errors) to dispell notions that it is compatible with Simrad's consumer radios. Subsequent research indicates that customers are underwhelmed with its performance, often wondering why it doesn't work. I'm left wondering if they even understood that it might not be compatible with their equipment. For me, I'm just looking for a vhf radio without AIS that has a simple wired remote unit that allows full operation at the helm. This irrational exhuberence for wireless seems absurd. Standard Horizon seems the better choice.

Posted by: Brian Engle at May 8, 2013 10:58 PM | Reply

Brian,
Simrad RS82 is still available.
You can buy mine if you like

Posted by: Hendrik at May 9, 2013 5:54 AM | Reply

I'm a big fan of black-box units with full-function remote mics. A quick search shows these options:

Standard Horizon Phantom PS1000,
Icom IC-M400BB,

and also these which have N2K:
Raymarine Ray260,
Garmin VHF300,
Simrad RS82.

All of these use wired remote mics.

Posted by: norse in reply to Brian Engle at May 12, 2013 1:47 PM | Reply

I installed a Lowrance link-8 2 weeks ago. In the detailed AIS screen I do not see all details of the vessels. MMSI, COG, speed, position is displayed but I am missing vessels name, length, width. Is this a error on my radio or is this information not transmitted by every AIS transponder? I sail on a lake and there a only 2 vessels sending AIS information.

Posted by: Peter at May 13, 2013 2:05 AM | Reply

Did you leave the radio on for a while, Peter? In both Class A and B AIS, the info you saw is broadcast much for frequently than what's called a vessel's "static data" like name and dimensions.

The static data message is only sent every six minutes so it might take that long to show up, or longer if you are far enough away from the vessels that some messages don't make it.

Please let us know if leaving the radio on solves the problem. I think you are the first Panbo commenter who is trying one of these Navico combo AIS VHF radios.

Posted by: Ben in reply to Peter at May 13, 2013 8:59 AM | Reply

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