So Simrad has introduced two new auto pilot control heads, the AP 24 above, and the larger AP 28. As best I can tell they both enable the same rich suite of AP features, which include steering patterns and steering to a contour (both appreciated by trolling fishermen), ROT control (which I think means turn rates adjusted for G force), virtual rudder feedback (i.e. rudder sensor not needed for outdrive installs), and “No Drift Course” (even if you just set a course, the pilot creates a virtual waypoint and corrects for current and leeway). But the really big change from previous Simrad models is that these heads use SimNet, a cable modification of NMEA 2000, to communicate with new AC12 and AC42 pilot computers as well as with SimNet rudder and compass sensors included in Simrad’s new IS20 instrument series (which also looks interesting).
Of course this means easier installation as dedicated cables don’t need to be run to various system components. And to some degree it means easier compatibility with other manufacturer’s gear. But that could involve a lot of SimNet to N2K patch cables if, say, you wanted to stay with standard N2K cabling, and I’m not positive that Simrad is using standard N2K PGNs whenever it can (the manuals aren’t up yet, and the brochures don’t list specific PGN support as Furuno so nicely did). I will try to find out more at METS next week, where Simrad will be introducing some other new and significant products.
I have concerns about LCD displays. I found that if you are not at the right view angle they are hard to read. So in the sailboat I delivered to the Caribe it was almost impossible to read the display, because of where it was mounted... convenient to the helm, but lower in the combing. I don't care for pressing buttons to set a course or correct it. Dials seem to be more intuitive.
The beeping off course sound was hard to hear in violent weather as well. Aside from that Autopilots are great crew, they don't complain and consume any stores.
Posted by: DefJef at November 10, 2007 9:18 AM
With 12 or 13 buttons (click in center?) that is almost as many as my chartplotter, but concentrated in 4 square inches.
DefJef-
You certainly illustrated your comment quite well.....
"great crew, they don't complain"
All kidding aside, todays LCD dispalys have improved to where viewing angle should not be a major concern. And if a pilot is set up correctly you shouldn't need to fool with it much.
As far as alarms, most today have a remote alarm output as does much electronics gear since it's not just heavy weather that blocks the noise, engines can be noisy too.
Posted by: Arnie at November 10, 2007 12:26 PM
What good is an "almost" compatible network? Close doesn't count in networking. How many dealers are going to stock a nice supply of SimNet adapter cables? They have "special order" written all over them.
Posted by: Russ at November 10, 2007 3:25 PM
I've got an AP16 now, and I thought the buttons wouldn't be as easy to use as the AP26 I have. I was wrong. It's actually easier to use. There is a button to change 1 degree and another to change 10 degrees. Once you get used to it (which is easy), it's very quick and easy to use.
I can change 20 degrees exactly in 2 button pushes.
There is also a lot of information on that small screen, but again it's organized in such a way that it doesn't seem crowded or confusing.
Posted by: Cameron at November 10, 2007 4:14 PM
Drat. I just ordered an AP25 and a set of IS-15 instruments. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to rethink the instruments now; the IS20 graphics display is exactly what I have been looking for.
Now I have to decide if I should go with their new autopilot as well. What benefits does it offer to a large heavy displacement trawler over the AP 25?
(This is just after telling the shipyard that I do not like changing my mind once I finally come to a decision.)
Posted by: George at November 12, 2007 1:21 PM
Too many buttons. Can't they take some of the configuration of the autopilot and move it into either soft keys or out of this control and into the chartplotter ??
My ideal autopilot head has either a rotary knob, or simply six buttons auto/standby -10 -1 +1 +10, and a button to turn the display into a depth or speed indicator instead. A special indent on the -1 and +2 buttons would be nice.
That way
1. My helmperson can learn it in about 2 minutes.
2. I can reach over from in front of the wheel, find the right buttons, and press them blind
I like the looks of the AP28. From the picture it looks like the dodge buttons may be a little hard to get to (I would probably use the knob instead) but the angle may just make it look that way. It would be nice if they would update their remote control to make it a bit more ergonomic.
Posted by: George at November 12, 2007 9:59 PM
I swear I didn't know it was coming ... I complained there was too many buttons, and my ideal autopilot had 6 buttons.
Garmin has delivered, in fact they just have 5 buttons in their new product just mentioned on AskJackRabbit, ... I just hope that a 20 degree turn dosn't require 20 x 1 degree button presses !
Hey, Dan, I just saw a demo of the Garmin AP interface, still under construction. Right now there doesn't seem to be a "dodge right 10" command, just a hold down right button and it starts reeling off dodge size until you let up. I think Garmin might appreciate your input on what to do with those few buttons, but please put it in the Garmin instrument entry. As you saw on Ask Jack Rabbit, the AP head is the same.
Hi Ben,
Glad you're back on this side of the pond. I know you must be near overload with all the new stuff you've reviewed lately.
I have decided to commission the new 44' that Kady Krogen is going to deliver to me in Stuart, Fl instead of here in the Chesapeake. That will be in February according to Krogen's Tom Button. Fl is a bit warmer in Feb than the Chesapeake!
I really would like to hear from anyone who has done new electronics on their boat lately. What they did and why and do they think that the availabilty of new N2K stuff would have made a difference in their decisions. Thanks,Ray
Posted by: Ray Nordstrom at November 18, 2007 11:32 PM
Ray, I can answer, I just setup my new Beneteau 393 last year, as described under "features" in Panbo.
N2K doesn’t go all the way, but it combined with some other changes (like a standard for radar cabling, and an N2K standard for letting on vendors displays show another vendors sensor data) wouldn’t make it such a engineering challenge to add new electronics to my one year new boat, which ultimately prevented me from making 4 additions this year (add ultrasonic weather station, upgrade radar 2kw-->4kw, add AIS, add solid state compass).
Looking at just N2K making a difference alone:
1. If I had N2K in my sailboat mast originally, I would have the option to replace my wind sensor with a Maretron or Airmar weather station. Without N2K, I have to delay my purchase until a time when I have my mast down for other work as the $2,000 of yard work to unstep and step the mast is prohibitive. However, even when my mast comes down … I am not thrilled I would need to purchase a dedicated display for the weather station, since one vendors N2K display won’t show all the information from another’s N2K device.
2. There are some areas of my boat where each incremental cable run is not economical due to conduits either being full, or in one case crushed in the manufacturing process. Had I used N2K (or more like, when I), I would have more options to add or reconfigure communication between my instruments, and my conduits wouldn’t be full to begin with. Case in point .. right now I cannot improve upon the NMEA 0183 wiring to get my DSC radio to output a position. It was wired to receive a position from my chartplotter, and cannot easily be upgraded without adding a multipler, or running a wire thru a full conduit to a spare nmea 0183 port I have on the other end of the boat.
3. Redundancy and option to run at lower power consumption. With N2K, vs NMEA 0183 & seatalk, I will have fewer single points of failure, and the option for vital components to work without having to power up all my gear, as I do today. For example I would like the option to operate my sailboat with my two chartplotters turned off, and still have my sensors display data to my ST60+ displays (e.g. wind, depth, boat speed).
I just got the manual for the IS-20 graphic, and I am definitely going to purchase one. It is not highres color like the Garmin or Maretron but I think it fits the bill just perfectly.
It looks like it handles just about everything. You can have one large number, a number and a trend graph, or groups of up to four. It handles just about every message that you can imagine including engine data.
The one thing that I would like it to have that it doesn't is a GPS drift chart for anchoring -- you can get that on your chartplotter but I like something in a low power unit. My old Raynav had that feature and I found it useful.
Aside from that, put this next to a wind instrument and it does everything that I could ask of a small instrument.
Posted by: George at November 21, 2007 7:32 PM
I just installed a complete Maretron system,ie. wind,compass, depth/speed/water temp,tank monitors, gps,2 displays and usb. This interfaces with a new Simrad AP-16 by a single simnet cable with one end replaced with a Maretron field attachable connector. It went together with no problems and has performed flawlessly.The AP-16 displays everything on the N2K buss. and the Maretron displays the rudder position.The USB feeds my laptop running the latest Cap'n . I also have a Milltech AIS feeding into the laptop giving me excellent positional data on the charts. It has been very useful while navigating the inland rivers with all their tug and barge traffic as it allows me to call the tugs by name rather than identify them solely by position.
Posted by: bob at December 7, 2007 7:00 AM
I need an AP 21 but it's discontinued.
Can anybody help?
Thank you.
Marco Benagli.
Posted by: marco benagli at December 9, 2009 12:25 PM
just read bob's comments about interfacing the simrad ap-16 with the maretron system and would like additional information or his comments concerning that installation. thanks
at November 10, 2007 9:18 AM
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